Discussion:
Muzlim Children are not born from Semen.
(too old to reply)
Paulo Gomes Jardim
2005-10-10 00:57:29 UTC
Permalink
RBRK wrote...
Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Book 008, Number 3381: Abu Sa'id
al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger
(may peace be upon him) was asked about 'azl, whereupon he said: The
child does not come from all the liquid (sermen) and when Allah intends
to create anything nothing can prevent it (from coming into existence).
That's a very nice passage, not that it helps. Moozlums claim that the
entire koran is the literal, unerring word of God, willing to blow
themselves up over passage they agree with while conveniently ignoring
passages like the above. Just about as unscientific as one can get,
the fact that virgins do not get pregnant (outside of mythology) means
nothing because the koran says semen isn't necessary to make a woman
pregnant.
At least in theory, semen is not essencial to produce an Human Being.
Google for parthenogenesis.
In any case, the above Hadith says that to God nothing is impossible, may
it be "virgin birth" or anything else. This is something repeatedly stated
in the Q'ran, when it talks of the omnipotency of God. Which is, BTW, a
common belief of many other Religions, either Monotheist and Politheist.
If you belive in God, or a god, you would probably expect that He has the
power to do anything He wants. There's nothing strange here.
However, if you want to claim that God is an unscientific entity, please
go ahead, I doubt you'll find much opposition on that.
Yet they have no problem stoning pregnant women to death,
apparently they do believe that semen and thus premarital sex is the
cause of the condemned woman's pregnancy.
--
"Do you mean to tell me, Katie Scarlett O'Hara, that Tara, that land
doesn't mean anything to you? Why, land is the only thing in the world
worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the
only thing that lasts." - Gerald O'Hara
SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
2005-10-10 02:20:28 UTC
Permalink
true, they are born of SHIT
striped_mule
2005-10-10 07:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk! Hahahaha.

Cheers!
Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
2005-10-10 10:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by striped_mule
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk! Hahahaha.
Cheers!
This Aussie half Sikh is an expert on life and creation given that he
sees the act of creativity in the rear seat of his cab in Sydney
harbour number of times every evening. I am sure Mule finds it far
more lucrative than riding his passengers around all over town.
Paulo Gomes Jardim
2005-10-10 22:09:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:24:16 +0100, Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
Post by Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
Post by striped_mule
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk! Hahahaha.
Cheers!
This Aussie half Sikh is an expert on life and creation given that he
sees the act of creativity in the rear seat of his cab in Sydney
harbour number of times every evening. I am sure Mule finds it far
more lucrative than riding his passengers around all over town.
You seem to know that routine so well...
I could bet you are one of these tramps that so said Mule's clients use to
pick on Sidney Harbour.
Have you been there in that rear seat, Rat Rizvi?
--
"Do you mean to tell me, Katie Scarlett O'Hara, that Tara, that land
doesn't mean anything to you? Why, land is the only thing in the world
worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the
only thing that lasts." - Gerald O'Hara
Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
2005-10-10 22:37:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:09:14 +0100, "Paulo Gomes Jardim"
Post by Paulo Gomes Jardim
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:24:16 +0100, Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
Post by Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
Post by striped_mule
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk! Hahahaha.
Cheers!
This Aussie half Sikh is an expert on life and creation given that he
sees the act of creativity in the rear seat of his cab in Sydney
harbour number of times every evening. I am sure Mule finds it far
more lucrative than riding his passengers around all over town.
You seem to know that routine so well...
I could bet you are one of these tramps that so said Mule's clients use to
pick on Sidney Harbour.
Have you been there in that rear seat, Rat Rizvi?
Hallmark of another half Sikh with usual idiotic bombast plus the
perennial Burqua.
Paulo Gomes Jardim
2005-10-10 22:36:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:24:16 +0100, Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
Post by Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
Post by striped_mule
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk! Hahahaha.
Cheers!
This Aussie half Sikh is an expert on life and creation given that he
sees the act of creativity in the rear seat of his cab in Sydney
harbour number of times every evening. I am sure Mule finds it far
more lucrative than riding his passengers around all over town.
You seem to know that routine so well...
I could bet you are one of these tramps that so said Mule's clients use to
pick on Sidney Harbour.
Have you been there in that rear seat, Rat Rizvi?
--
"Do you mean to tell me, Katie Scarlett O'Hara, that Tara, that land
doesn't mean anything to you? Why, land is the only thing in the world
worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the
only thing that lasts." - Gerald O'Hara
SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
2005-10-10 15:56:57 UTC
Permalink
First of all douche bag, you don't know what I believe and don't
believe. I don't give you enough information for your tiny pea brain to
think about such things you amoeboid submonkey

Second, I don't curse all religions. In fact, I only curse a CULT, that
of ass-slam (islam) created by that mad hallucinating pedophile
mo-ham-MAD, shit and diarhea be upon his grave. PISS on islam, on the
koran and all mohammedans.

lastly, talking aobut reincarnating as a turd, I would like to know how
many lifetimes it took YOU to be born as an ambulatory turd, or were
you born in your present nauseating form right away?
Post by striped_mule
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk! Hahahaha.
Cheers!
RBRK
2005-10-10 16:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Sirk Jaan:

I personally prefer being re-incarnated a shit than as an izlamist arab.
heehee
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
First of all douche bag, you don't know what I believe and don't
believe. I don't give you enough information for your tiny pea brain to
think about such things you amoeboid submonkey
Second, I don't curse all religions. In fact, I only curse a CULT, that
of ass-slam (islam) created by that mad hallucinating pedophile
mo-ham-MAD, shit and diarhea be upon his grave. PISS on islam, on the
koran and all mohammedans.
lastly, talking aobut reincarnating as a turd, I would like to know how
many lifetimes it took YOU to be born as an ambulatory turd, or were
you born in your present nauseating form right away?
Post by striped_mule
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk!
Hahahaha.
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
Post by striped_mule
Cheers!
striped_mule
2005-10-11 05:08:24 UTC
Permalink
<snip> crap

Go sit on your shiva lingam. Or more appropriately, the shiva penis
stone that you worship.
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
I would like to know how
many lifetimes it took YOU to be born as an >ambulatory
I dont believe in reincarnation. I die and thats the end. Dust to dust
and ashes to ashes. However, it is you hindus of India who follow a
primitive religion (if it can be called one) and have primitive
customs. Would you deny that you worship your lord shiva's penis
otherwise known as shivalingam in your faith? Do you deny that brahma
cut of shiva's pee wee? The one that you worship? If so, your faith is
a joke. A big joke. LOL.

BTW, just out of curiosity's sake. Were you a mangy, flea infested cur
in your pervious life or were you one of those healthy dogs from
Varansi?

Cheers!
SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
2005-10-11 06:44:05 UTC
Permalink
you flea-bitten pile of muslim feces,

what actually gave you the idea that anyone gave a flying turd about
your opinion? When you can tell me that, I will unlock the chain that
ties you into wall for the safety of all the animal life near your
mental hospital that fears your sexual depravity, you filthy mohammedan
scum. Now like I said to that other son of a mohammedan whore filthy
earlier...but then again, that would not apply to you. You were born a
pile of shit in this world, and you will leave a pile of shit and that
will be the end of that. What's left of you will be called "food" for
flies and eventually be picked up by a shit wagon on its way to dumping
your remains into a landfill.
Post by striped_mule
<snip> crap
Go sit on your shiva lingam. Or more appropriately, the shiva penis
stone that you worship.
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
I would like to know how
many lifetimes it took YOU to be born as an >ambulatory
I dont believe in reincarnation. I die and thats the end. Dust to dust
and ashes to ashes. However, it is you hindus of India who follow a
primitive religion (if it can be called one) and have primitive
customs. Would you deny that you worship your lord shiva's penis
otherwise known as shivalingam in your faith? Do you deny that brahma
cut of shiva's pee wee? The one that you worship? If so, your faith is
a joke. A big joke. LOL.
BTW, just out of curiosity's sake. Were you a mangy, flea infested cur
in your pervious life or were you one of those healthy dogs from
Varansi?
Cheers!
k***@gmail.com
2005-10-10 17:18:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by striped_mule
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
You believe in reincarnation right? Un-*ucking-believable. Considering
the way you are going around slandering other faiths, I believe you
will be reincarnated as a turd in your next life. You will have a very
short next life. Straight from the ass into the flush. Plonk! Hahahaha.
Cheers!
stupid fucking paki idiot,turd has no life,just like you halfhindu
pakis..
RBRK
2005-10-10 15:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by SIRKNIGHT67_shits_on_mo-ham-MAD
true, they are born of SHIT
ROFLMAO
RBRK
2005-10-10 15:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Gomes Jardim
RBRK wrote...
Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Book 008, Number 3381: Abu
Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's
Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about 'azl, whereupon
he said: The child does not come from all the liquid (sermen) and
when Allah intends to create anything nothing can prevent it (from
coming into existence).
That's a very nice passage, not that it helps. Moozlums claim that
the entire koran is the literal, unerring word of God, willing to
blow themselves up over passage they agree with while conveniently
ignoring passages like the above. Just about as unscientific as one
can get, the fact that virgins do not get pregnant (outside of
mythology) means nothing because the koran says semen isn't necessary
to make a woman pregnant.
At least in theory, semen is not essencial to produce an Human Being.
Google for parthenogenesis.
In any case, the above Hadith says that to God nothing is impossible,
may it be "virgin birth" or anything else. This is something
repeatedly stated in the Q'ran, when it talks of the omnipotency of
God. Which is, BTW, a common belief of many other Religions, either
Monotheist and Politheist. If you belive in God, or a god, you would
probably expect that He has the power to do anything He wants.
There's nothing strange here. However, if you want to claim that God
is an unscientific entity, please go ahead, I doubt you'll find much
opposition on that.
Yet they have no problem stoning pregnant women to death,
apparently they do believe that semen and thus premarital sex is the
cause of the condemned woman's pregnancy.
Never equate GOD with arab Allah.
They are very much different from one another.

I do believe in God but I have thrown arab allah to the trash where it
belongs.
Paulo Gomes Jardim
2005-10-11 00:10:59 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:33:25 +0100, RBRK <***@Irani.com> wrote:

[..]
Post by RBRK
Never equate GOD with arab Allah.
They are very much different from one another.
I do believe in God but I have thrown arab allah to the trash where it
belongs.
Then why do you keep insulting Islam?
I guess you are not at peace with your choice of Religion, or else you
would keep from harassing people on a different path.
Just look at most of your opponents on these newsgroups, including me: we
see you are on the most direct path to an abyss, and we just don't care.
Please reciprocate the genteelness.
--
"Do you mean to tell me, Katie Scarlett O'Hara, that Tara, that land
doesn't mean anything to you? Why, land is the only thing in the world
worth workin' for, worth fightin' for, worth dyin' for, because it's the
only thing that lasts." - Gerald O'Hara
Nusrat Rizvi, Rowayton Connecticut
2005-10-11 02:36:20 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:10:59 +0100, "Paulo Gomes Jardim"
Post by Paulo Gomes Jardim
[..]
Post by RBRK
Never equate GOD with arab Allah.
They are very much different from one another.
I do believe in God but I have thrown arab allah to the trash where it
belongs.
Then why do you keep insulting Islam?
I guess you are not at peace with your choice of Religion, or else you
would keep from harassing people on a different path.
Just look at most of your opponents on these newsgroups, including me: we
see you are on the most direct path to an abyss, and we just don't care.
Please reciprocate the genteelness.
Like any half Sikh you too suffer from chronic delusions. Nobody would
waste time thinking of you as a human let alone an enemy.
RBRK
2005-10-11 02:49:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Gomes Jardim
[..]
Post by RBRK
Never equate GOD with arab Allah.
They are very much different from one another.
I do believe in God but I have thrown arab allah to the trash where
it belongs.
Then why do you keep insulting Islam?
I guess you are not at peace with your choice of Religion, or else you
would keep from harassing people on a different path.
Are posting hadiths and islam related articles considered harassment by
Izlamists?
Post by Paulo Gomes Jardim
we see you are on the most direct path to an abyss, and we just don't
care. Please reciprocate the genteelness.
I suggest you see the movie "abyss".
One of my favorites
Paulo Gomes Jardim
2005-10-11 03:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by RBRK
Post by Paulo Gomes Jardim
[..]
Post by RBRK
Never equate GOD with arab Allah.
They are very much different from one another.
I do believe in God but I have thrown arab allah to the trash where
it belongs.
Then why do you keep insulting Islam?
I guess you are not at peace with your choice of Religion, or else you
would keep from harassing people on a different path.
Are posting hadiths and islam related articles considered harassment by
Izlamists?
Most people, Islamist or not, would consider this as harassement:

"The izlamist cockroaches say Saudi Arabia or Terrorist regime of Iran is
not really Islamic as Izlam is religion of Peace."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.islam/msg/f037dfb9e7dc4c54?dmode=source&hl=en

Or this:

"We all know how stupid Tazis and tokhm tazis are. Stupidity
runs in their mohammedan blood mixed with camel piss"
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.iranian/msg/9232da1c242f9a2d?dmode=source&hl=en
Post by RBRK
Post by Paulo Gomes Jardim
we see you are on the most direct path to an abyss, and we just don't
care. Please reciprocate the genteelness.
I suggest you see the movie "abyss".
One of my favorites
One of my favorites too.
Anyhow, I identify you more with the main non-human character of "The
Kraken Wakes".
--
Believing in God throught Religion is like touring Venice in an organized
excursion. There are some advantages, of course, but you'll never see the
best of it.
Joubin Houshyar
2005-10-11 02:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Salaam,

This seems quite clear:

--
Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Book 008, Number 3381:

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that Allah's Messenger (SAW) was asked
about 'azl, whereupon he said: The child does not come from all the
liquid (sermen) and when Allah intends to create anything nothing can
prevent it.
--
These are fairly well understood biological facts and are discussed at
length here:

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen

So:

I: "The child does not come from all the liquid"

Fact a [1]:

"Around 200 million to 500 million spermatozoa (also called sperm cells
or spermatozoans), produced in the testes, are released per
ejaculation. However, they make up only about 2-5% of the volume of
semen. The bulk of the semen is composed of seminal plasma, the fluid
portion of semen. This fluid is contributed by the accessory male
reproductive organs. Some 60% of the volume of ejaculate is produced by
the seminal vesicles, and most of the remainder is generated by the
prostate. A small amount of viscous mucus secreted by the bulbourethral
glands contributes to the cohesive jelly-like texture of semen."

Fact b:

Of the 200,000,000 to 500,000,000 sperm cells, themselves *only* a
minor fraction of the ejaculate, ONLY ONE SPERM CELL is
required/responsible for the fertilization of the (female) egg.

So statement (I) is *factual* and *entirely* correct: "The child does
not come from all the liquid". The consideration of the corresponding
role of the female egg in the process provides further support for the
factuality of the statement.

"When Allah intends ... nothing can prevent it"

So the question remains why does the male ejaculate require such an
over-abundance of sperm cells, per fertilization attempt? Clearly the
production of semen is a very costly -- in terms of energy, biomatter
-- to the organism. [2]

[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatogenesis

Why the overkill of 500,000,000 cells, and the 95-97% 'extra' matter?
What is the biological sense of this?

Why not just one? Why not a few dozen at most? What are the issues
here?

Well, the 'grand army' faces many challanges before being able to
deliver that single sperm cell to the female egg:

[3]:
http://www.drmalpani.com/book/chapter2d.html#What%20happens%20to%20the%20sperm%20once%20they%20enter%20the%20womans%20vagina

"Sperms in the female reproductive tract swim under their own steam -
as a result of the whip- like activity of their tail which propels them
on. Of the millions of sperms released in an ejaculate, only a few
hundred will make the arduous trip upto the egg successfully. Perhaps
this is why so many millions of sperms are produced in the first place
even though only one is needed to fertilize the egg - because the
wastage is so prodigal."

There are further biochemical challanges that the sperms face in
fulfilling their biological function. That these factors are
sufficiently prohibitive is seen by the Fact that not every act of
ejaculation within a female, even if she is fertile, results in
pregnancy. (That this is a common enough issue is attested to by the
existence of 'fertility' medical research and cliniques that seek to
remedy and help those couples that are un-successful in their attempts
at affecting pregnancy.)

II - "when Allah intends to create anything nothing can prevent it"

This second statement can be viewed in isolation -- as in God (as has
been pointed out) is generally understood to be Omnipotent (otherwise
the 'title' is somewhat misattributed, no?)

However, in context it provides further support for assertion of
prophetic insight into a matter quite ill-understood in 8th century:

As a dependent statement clarifying and expanding on statement (I),
this is to be understood as an affirmation that no such difficulties --
as in the general case regarding the 500,000,000 candidates who may not
make it; or the specific case of deficiencies in either the male or the
female biological function -- can prevent a conception Decreed by The
Almighty GOD.

So

The Prophet (SAW) said: The child does not come from all the liquid
(sermen) and when Allah intends to create anything nothing can prevent
it.

These are factual statements, and clearly *counter-intuitive to the
experience/knowledge of 8th century humans. The closest experience that
could inform the intuition of perceptive minds (at that stage) would be
to consider the analogous function of sowing seeds in fields.

([*]: The experience of planting one seed and obtaining a corresponding
(agricultural) organism c/would possiblity lead to an incorrect
'analogy' of Seed <--> Ejaculate.)

Now, clearly the notion of Allah/The-GOD is a matter of belief and its
'factuality' is a matter of contention. Some believe and some do not.


"So wait. We too are waiting!"

/Salaam

p.s. You should note that you were quoting from the Related Sayings of
the Prophet, and not The Qur'an, which are distinct.
RBRK wrote...
Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Book 008, Number 3381: Abu Sa'id
al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger
(may peace be upon him) was asked about 'azl, whereupon he said: The
child does not come from all the liquid (sermen) and when Allah intends
to create anything nothing can prevent it (from coming into existence).
That's a very nice passage, not that it helps. Moozlums claim that the
entire koran is the literal, unerring word of God, willing to blow
themselves up over passage they agree with while conveniently ignoring
passages like the above. Just about as unscientific as one can get,
the fact that virgins do not get pregnant (outside of mythology) means
nothing because the koran says semen isn't necessary to make a woman
pregnant.
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